And since when is “real patriotism always called treachery”? Colour me confused.

I’m always being accused of being un-Irish, a turncoat, West Brit etc. but the accusation doesn’t bother me. I know real patriotism is always called treachery. I know the pacifists in WWI were given white feathers and called a disgrace to their King and country. I know that socialists in America in the fifties were called un-American and unpatriotic. And anyone who criticises the war in Iraq is seen as insulting the troops etc.

My head may explode. This is just not the kind of argument I thought I’d ever need to get involved in with another Irish person. I feel pretty ill.

Now, back to the sex abusers!

Mal, I do believe in equality. And for much longer than a second. Totally. And by equality I mean that everyone is just as worthy of my respect as anyone else, until their actions prove otherwise. Equality doesn’t mean that everyone is the same, not unless you are reading Kurt Vonnegut.

And I disagree that there is inevitably going to be a class system, although I’ll agree that society by its nature create hierarchies. A class system is different than a hierarchy.
Class is all about limiting movement and preventing any sort of equality because of where you originate from. There is no such rigidity inherent to other forms of hierarchy.

Class is defined by birth, and even if you do manage to move up it’ll always take a generation if not more to be accepted. A hierarchy based on ability wouldn’t have such prejudices.

As for a monarch representing all of society! You are kidding, what about republicans? Or don’t they get to be part of society? Everything in this world is devisive. That is part and parcel of being human, disagreeing with other people.

I wouldn’t want to have anybody kneel to me either. But you standing up for the judge is a case in point. He may be the greatest jackass in the country; it’s irrelevant. It’s what he symbolises you are respecting.

There is inevitably going to be a class system, a hierarchy. I prefer aristocracy because its IDEAL is refinement, noblesse oblige, public service, grace and so forth. Otherwise you will just get a plutocracy or a bureaucracy, whose ideals are profit or efficiency. The reason I dislike the Presidency is because it IS elected; it’s elected by the living only, and ignores the dead. Who are an important part of any community. And a President is inherently devisive, anyway. Because some people elected her and some didn’t, she represents a section of society, rather than the whole like the Queen does.

I don’t mind the idea of having a national representative, like our President, who represents our nation and may deserve respect. But at least our representative is elected, not born to the position.

I stand up when the priest enters the church at Mass or when the judge enters the court. Mostly because of habit, though partly out of respect. But I bend the knee to no-one but God, his Son or the Pope. I believe too much in equality to ever think that I should be knelt to by another or that I should kneel to anyone else.

I really cannot disagree enough with you on this one Mal. Really. I honestly think it’s an indefensible institution. Particularly the invented one you like the idea of.

I would never respect a person simply because they belonged in a certain class. I do not believe that they represent anything but their own interests.

I like the thought of something that’s sacrosanct, amidst the hurly-burly of abuse and vitriol. True pride doesn’t object to bowing now and then. I think our society needs more courtesy; a touch of out-of-your-faceness.