Last post, from me, on the riots.
I am not embarrassed by them. I am not shamed by them.
I did not take part. I did not toss bottles of urine at gardaÃ. I did not taunt gardaÃ. I did not loot shoe shops. I did not burn cars. I will never cheer on the IRA, be they Real, Provisional or “I can’t believe its not the buttery goodness that is the IRA”
I will never take anyone seriously who uses spin to try and condone such acts
Instead I’m content to be angry at those rioters. The majority of whom were nothing but bored kids acting out. But don’t think that this was unorganised disenfranchised youth acting on their own. What about the organisers telling the riots where to go. Instructing people to leave O’Connell St and head for Leinster House?
(Sub’s req’d)
The rioters engage in a stand- off with gardaà in Temple Bar. One puts his finger to his head as though it’s a gun and shouts“Bang bang, Jerry McCabe, bang bang, Jerry McCabe”.
Also, in the campaign that the every day items have launched against me; today I scraped my knuckles on the rhyco book covers. Never fear. I shall keep you all up to date with this catalogue of minor annoyances.
If there's something strange
In your neighborhood
Who you gonna call
(Ghostbusters)
If there's something weird
And it don't look good
Who you gonna call
(Ghostbusters)
Call them.
Yeah, it sounds like you've got a poltergeist or a gremlin or some other movie title. Get it sorted.
It can't just be that you're a clumsy fool. It can't be.
Wise advice Anne. Very wise.
NM, are you insinuating something? Well, Are ya? huh? Pbviously the second option you mentioned cannot be true as it is the every day things that inflicting damage on me. I'm not bumping into things, or dropping them. They are moving and escaping!
Also, have you read this, re Adam and Bones, scroll to the bottom
Ooh!!! Adam! On Bones! That's so COOL! Beyond cool. I'm going to do a little dance now.
And I'm done.
NM, I believe the correct online response would have been SQUEEEE! :)
I was so close to typing SQUEEEE but couldn't decide how many ees to add. :-D I went with multiple exclamation marks instead.
But yes, SQUEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
WW was telling me all about the riots on the phone last night. Her comment – very sensible, have a contentious march and direct it down a street that's in the process of being rebuilt so there's plenty of piles of bricks and things around to use as ammo.
Just saying that the rioters may be complete arseholes, but the authorities have to take some of the blame for cocking up the organisation of the march in the first place.
What's rhyco?
Ryco, no? Those clear plastic yokes for covering books so that they don't get damaged by contact with dirty filthy human flesh. Ne?
The 'spark' that lit the Dublin riots : the first 'punch' : http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
http://admin2.7.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=5487
I was kinda wondering if O'Connell St on a Sat is any place for a march at all?
But see, I don't think that most people were expecting violence. Easy with hindsight to say "duh!"
But yes. Garda management do have questions to answer. Many from the gardaà themselves.
Auds, of the questions :) NM has pointed out both my typo and the purpose. Ryco is just the brand name of library covers. They offer a variety of different sorts :)
A ryco typo. Tee.
Hindsight is always 20-20. I mean, we were half-thinking of heading along to laugh at it, never dreaming things would be as bad as they were. Read summat today about Bertie saying that the Guards contemplated a bigger police presence but didn't want to stir up the crowds. Which is a fair point. They did get reinforcements in fairly quickly though, right? So they were prepared to a certain extent.
It pisses me off that most of the shite about this march is going to revolve around placing the blame on people other than the bastards who started it.
Sharon, thanks for posting, but I don't believe that repost. Anyone who uses the term Free State cops when refering to the Gardaà needs to provide proof, not anecdotes that contradict everything else I've read.
"Sharon, thanks for posting, but I don’t believe that repost. Anyone who uses the term Free State cops when refering to the Gardaà needs to provide proof, not anecdotes that contradict everything else I’ve read."
Hi !
So if the term 'Free State cops' had NOT been used , you would give that post a fairer viewing than you did ?
Shallow , no ?
A solicitor has since said much the same as that post I pointed you towards , plus journalists have complained that the Gardai prevented them from taking photographs – see my blog for futher details : I won't post its URL as I might be accused of spamming , as has happened me elsewhere concerning this issue .
Thanks !
Sharon .
I'm not saying that it means the person who used that term is lying. Simply that it is indicative of an attitude. After all it is, in itself a lie. There is no Free State, so how can the Gardaà be servants of the non-existant entity?
Feel free to post a link, as long as you are responding on topic it isn't spam.
Are you sorry you posted on this yet? :-)
Mmmm, spam.
Nope.
Afterall if I wanted I could always switch the comments off on this post.
Hi again !
Republicans use the term 'Free State' to describe the 26 Counties due to the fact that the British writ no longer ('officially' , at least!) applies in that part of this isle , as opposed to the Six Counties , where it does .
It is hardly a 'big' enough issue on which to deny other things a person says , is it ?
Sharon .
I'm a republican, in that I believe in the Republic of Ireland. And I would never use the term Free State as it indicates that the person using it does not recognise the legitimate government of the Republic. it is a derogatory term, and meant in a derogatory fashion. Therefore, when I see/hear people using it, I am, of course suspicious.
By itself though, no it would not be enough to make me doubt what the other person said. It would however make me look closer and want more proof. Which is exactly what I originally stated, that I wanted more than one or two people reporting that version as opposed to the multitude of people telling the other side.
And I think that it is quite telling that you imply that we are still living under British writ.
Well, that's true. You are the controller of your own little verse after all. And as the benvolent dictator of this blog, you're magnanimously allowing us freedom of speech. You dote! :-)
" And I would never use the term Free State as it indicates that the person using it does not recognise the legitimate government of the Republic. it is a derogatory term, and meant in a derogatory fashion."
– If I could find a stronger derogatory term , I would use it : I have absolutely no respect , no time and no desire to be like those in Leinster House – they are a self-serving bunch of rich careerists who 'preside' over a rotten and corrupt State .
" Which is exactly what I originally stated, that I wanted more than one or two people reporting that version as opposed to the multitude of people telling the other side."
-After roughly two-and-a-half hours (ie 9.50Am -12.20Pm approx) of trouble-free protest at the Parnell Monument , the riot squad attempted to move us : not the 'ordinary' Gardai , not the Special Branch [both those groups were present on the isle with us , taking names] .
The actions of the riot squad started the trouble , which spread from that Monument to the GPO . Other people then , disgracefully , took it further and , in doing so , took the protest out of the political arena .
"And I think that it is quite telling that you imply that we are still living under British writ. "
-When did Leinster House last call for a British withdrawal ?
Sharon .
Sharon, Sharon, Sharon. Where to start, or should I just shake my head and laugh.
A British withdrawal from where exactly?
I'm with the shaking my head and laughing.
British withdrawal from the Eurovision maybe? Or the World Cup! They could give us the England spot! After all, if we can beat those Swedes, we can beat anyone.
I think Sharon's becoming my favourite poster here. After you. And Kelly. And Forgotten Machine. And Anne. And me. And Carl. And all the rest…
See, I can't agree with the whole 1169 thing. Cos I'm a Norman. We came here back then. But all the rest of the stuff, grand.
"You aint nuttin but a furriner,
invading all the time.
You aint nuttin but a furriner,
invading all the time.
Well, you brough over dem rabbits,
so I suppose you're okay"
WOW!
You people are SOOOO cool !
You treat a serious issue with such irreverence . So much so , in fact , that your children may yet grow up to become involved in it .
Frightening , is'nt it ?
And when they ask you why this issue was'nt solved in the past , you can safely , and accurately , reply – " I don't know . I was attempting to show how smart I was at the time . On a website ."
Cool !
Sharon .
Yes Sharon. We are cool. Ever so cool. So cool we have our own little climates following around. Wanna umbrella?
If anything is frightening it is that people like you still exist. What *issue* do you want solved?
And I wasn't attempting anything. As Yoda once said, there is no try.
You are the one using lies and insults to try and get a point across. A point that I don't agree with, and, with arguments like you provided, I never will.
" Yes Sharon. We are cool. Ever so cool. So cool we have our own little climates following around. Wanna umbrella? "
– Not from you , thanks . Because I know it would'nt hold water .
" If anything is frightening it is that people like you still exist."
It is 'frightening' that 'people like me' still have reason to exist ie because of the unresolved conflict .
" What *issue* do you want solved? "
The *issue* of six counties . Could you not figure that out for yourself ?
" And I wasn’t attempting anything. As Yoda once said, there is no try."
Oscar Wilde once said – "One should never listen . To listen is a sign of indifference to one's hearers . " But then I don't suppose that , to you , Wilde is as 'cool' as 'Yoda' .
" You are the one using lies and insults to try and get a point across."
'Lies and insults' ? No . You belittle your own position by saying so . Shame on you for doing so in such a fashion .
"A point that I don’t agree with, and, with arguments like you provided, I never will."
-I believe it to be impossible to provide you with arguments which you would beieve . Because you do not want too .
Sharon .
The *issue* of six counties . Could you not figure that out for yourself ?
Well, I did assume so, but the original post has nothing to do with that issue. It has to do with rioters on the streets of Dublin.
The issue of Northern Ireland will not be resolved in this decade, nor the next. You seem to want to resolve it by creating some form a United Ireland, yet you are are unwilling to accept the current republic and its servants.
Why should over 50% of the population on the North be forced to join a country if they don't want to. Don't go quoting me history, because while I think that partition in back in the 1920's was wrong, at this stage in time it is fact. And trying to pretend that the situation today is the same as it was back then wil not hold anymore water than my umbrellas. Though I have yet to see any umbrella that carries water, nor do I see any reason for it.
And you did use lies. You used a statement calling the gardai Free Staters. This is untrue. Therefore your argument is based on lies. It may be your opinion that the Republic of Ireland is not a legitimate state, but if so, you are just proving how undemocratic you are.
Actually, Fence, I've just been converted. The umbrellas thing was the last straw. I now totally believe all the six counties evil Free State blah blah blah bullshit. I think I'll go start a riot.
Ah, no, it's a bit cold outside. Maybe I'll rebel by not working very hard at my government job.
" Well, I did assume so, but the original post has nothing to do with that issue. It has to do with rioters on the streets of Dublin."
What was it , in the first instance , that brought the crowds on to the Dublin city centre streets that morning ?
A 'Love Ulster'/loyalist parade – thus the Six County connection . Really ! Pay attention …
" The issue of Northern Ireland will not be resolved in this decade, nor the next."
I presume 'Yoda' told you that ?
" You seem to want to resolve it by creating some form a United Ireland, yet you are are unwilling to accept the current republic and its servants."
-As a 'stepping-stone' , I presume you mean ? An 84-year-old 'stepping-stone'- even Collins , who authored that phrase at that time , later retracted it by stating that he had signed his own death warrant in accepting a 26-County State . But you know different , of course . Having been told by your friend 'Yoda' , no doubt !
" Why should over 50% of the population on the North be forced to join a country if they don’t want to. Don’t go quoting me history, because while I think that partition in back in the 1920’s was wrong, at this stage in time it is fact."
Another fact is that the loyalist population make-up less than 20 per cent of the population of this island . I do not think it democratic to pander exclusively to a minority . Do you ?
" And trying to pretend that the situation today is the same as it was back then wil not hold anymore water than my umbrellas."
Was Six Counties being discussed 'back then' ? And are those same six counties being discussed today ? That's your answer .
" Though I have yet to see any umbrella that carries water, nor do I see any reason for it."
– Would you prefer an umbrella that lets the water through – or carries it away from you ?
"And you did use lies. You used a statement calling the gardai Free Staters. This is untrue. Therefore your argument is based on lies. It may be your opinion that the Republic of Ireland is not a legitimate state, but if so, you are just proving how undemocratic you are."
I am a Free Stater , to some , by virture of the fact that I live in a State free of the British writ . So do you . You tell "lies" to suggest otherwise !
Sharon .
My GOD, she just doesn't stop. When will this poster leave Yoda alone? OK, so he wasn't as wise in the prequels, but surely that was made up for by the fact that he kicked serious ass with a lightsabre.
I'm bored. What's on the other channel?
What was it , in the first instance , that brought the crowds on to the Dublin city centre streets that morning ?
A ‘Love Ulster’/loyalist parade – thus the Six County connection
I never said there wasn't a connection with NI, I merely stated that my post was not about NI, but about the rioters. But then again, what aboutery is one of the central religions of many who *discuss* NI.
And if you think that half of those who rioted care about NI you really are fooling yourself.
I presume ‘Yoda’ told you that?
What is this problem you have with the little green dude? Were you traumatised as a child by <cite>Star Wars</cite> or something?
As a ’stepping-stone’ , I presume you mean
No. As an entity in its own right. As a legitimate govt. The Republic of Ireland exists. The Free State does not.
And lets leave Collins out of it. Else I'll be tempted to say something I regret.
Another fact is that the loyalist population make-up less than 20 per cent of the population of this island
And what has that to do with anything? I said don't bother with the historical aspects didn't I? At this present moment there exists the Republic, and Northern Ireland. Why should we go back 80 years to reinstate a political boundary from then?
Was Six Counties being discussed ‘back then’ ? And are those same six counties being discussed today ? That’s your answer
Well it is pretty useless answer. I didn't ask what was being discussed. I said that the situation was different. The situation as a whole.
Would you prefer an umbrella that lets the water through – or carries it away from you?< ?b>
Well either way, it still doesn't hold water. Does it?
I am a Free Stater , to some , by virture of the fact that I live in a State free of the British writ . So do you . You tell “lies†to suggest otherwise
So now being a Free Stater is a good thing? Earlier you said it was the most derogatory statement you could use. At least I'm assuming you mean that being "free of British writ" is a good thing.
Also, you are trying to twist the meaning of Free State. In the context it was used it was meant to refer to the Saorstat Eireann, the state in existance prior to the Republic.
Try to keep your arguments straight.
That'd be The Hoff NM, only not till later.
"No. As an entity in its own right. As a legitimate govt. The Republic of Ireland exists. The Free State does not."
– See my reply below * .
"I said don’t bother with the historical aspects didn’t I? "
– So what you are saying , then , is this – 'Lets discuss the issue EXCEPT for its historical aspects' ! You can't be serious … ?
"Well it is pretty useless answer. I didn’t ask what was being discussed. I said that the situation was different. The situation as a whole."
-Six Counties then , Six Counties now .Spot the 'difference' .
" So now being a Free Stater is a good thing? Earlier you said it was the most derogatory statement you could use. At least I’m assuming you mean that being “free of British writ†is a good thing."
– You pulled yourself up just in time there : you were about too attempt to put words in my mouth but then backed-off . Well done You !
"Also, you are trying to twist the meaning of Free State. In the context it was used it was meant to refer to the Saorstat Eireann, the state in existance prior to the Republic."
– * Actually , the 'Legal Eagles' have it that the 'Republic of Ireland' is NOT the name of the 26-County State – it is merely the "description" of the State under the 'Republic of Ireland Act 1948' ! A number of years ago [around the time of the 'Stormont Treaty'] a 'verbal row' over this issue came to the fore and the above was the agreed conclusion of same . How come Yoda never told you that ?
"Try to keep your arguments straight."
– Pot , Kettle !
Sharon .
So what you are saying , then , is this – ‘Lets discuss the issue EXCEPT for its historical aspects’ ! You can’t be seriou
I am. Totally. I was discussing how many bloggers and journalists were saying that the rioters made them ashamed of being Irish. That the actions of the few shamed the nation. And I stated, quite clearly that I did not want to be associated with them. What exactly has that to do with history. Like all Shinners you seem to delight in twisting arguments while never actually answering any counter questions.
After all you still haven't explained your dislike of Yoda, have you?
-Six Counties then , Six Counties now .Spot the ‘difference’ .
See, there you go again. Ignoring wider issues. Back in the twenties an entity known as Northern Ireland had not been in existance for 80 years, had it? Therefore the situation is different. Some aspects have remained the same, and obviously some mindsets, but the situation, as a whole has changed. Refusing to acknowledge this does not make you right.
the ‘Legal Eagles’ have it that the ‘Republic of Ireland’ is NOT the name of the 26-County State
Yes. I am well aware of the fact that the consitution says the name of the 26 entity is Ireland. My point about it not being called the Free State remains valid. And the fact that republic is used in the description is exactly the reason I used it, in order to avoid confusion between Ireland the island, NI, and the 26 counties. It'd be a bit awkward to constantly have to say Ireland, meaning the 26 counties and not the geographical island wouldn't it?
– You pulled yourself up just in time there : you were about too attempt to put words in my mouth but then backed-off . Well done You !
But alas, I cannot congratulate you, can I. Because, as usual you have ignored the question behind my statement. Haven't you?
“Try to keep your arguments straight.â€
– Pot , Kettle !
Please, by all means, give me an example of when my arguments shifted, apart from when I was trying to follow your crazy reasoning.
" So what you are saying , then , is this – ‘Lets discuss the issue EXCEPT for its historical aspects’ ! You can’t be seriou
I am. Totally."
– You think it good enough to discuss only half the problem ?
And what – arrive at half a 'solution', saying – 'Well , it's the best we could do having confined ourselves to only half the issue..' ?
Because that IS what you are saying .
" I was discussing how many bloggers and journalists were saying that the rioters made them ashamed of being Irish. That the actions of the few shamed the nation. And I stated, quite clearly that I did not want to be associated with them. What exactly has that to do with history."
Has that same 'feeling' never been expressed before regarding the conflict on this isle ?
"Like all Shinners you seem to delight in twisting arguments while never actually answering any counter questions."
– You mean '…while never actually answering…' in the manner you want .
"After all you still haven’t explained your dislike of Yoda, have you?"
-…and you have never told me what you think of Oscar Wilde .
"-Six Counties then , Six Counties now .Spot the ‘difference’ .
See, there you go again. Ignoring wider issues. Back in the twenties an entity known as Northern Ireland had not been in existance for 80 years, had it? Therefore the situation is different. Some aspects have remained the same, and obviously some mindsets, but the situation, as a whole has changed. Refusing to acknowledge this does not make you right."
– But you do , at least (I presume) acknowledge that the jurisdictional claim from Westminster over six Irish counties has been the catalyst for the conflict over the last 84 years ? Or is it still your preference to ignore any reference to an historical context ?
" the ‘Legal Eagles’ have it that the ‘Republic of Ireland’ is NOT the name of the 26-County State
Yes. I am well aware of the fact that the consitution says the name of the 26 entity is Ireland. My point about it not being called the Free State remains valid. And the fact that republic is used in the description is exactly the reason I used it, in order to avoid confusion between Ireland the island, NI, and the 26 counties. It’d be a bit awkward to constantly have to say Ireland, meaning the 26 counties and not the geographical island wouldn’t it?"
-One would be in-correct to refer to 'Ireland' UNLESS one was referring to the whole island – my point exactly !
By the way – you have referred many times to an entity which you call 'Northern Ireland' :do you include Donegal in that discription ? If not – why not ?
" – You pulled yourself up just in time there : you were about too attempt to put words in my mouth but then backed-off . Well done You !
But alas, I cannot congratulate you, can I. Because, as usual you have ignored the question behind my statement. Haven’t you?"
– No ! Read that section again : you did not get the answer you would have liked , but that , alone , does not give you the right to claim that I made no comment on the issue .
"“Try to keep your arguments straight.â€
– Pot , Kettle !
Please, by all means, give me an example of when my arguments shifted, apart from when I was trying to follow your crazy reasoning. "
– You have , for one , shifted your position on the descriptive term you used to describe this State – after you were corrected on the proper use of same .
You are not really Yoda's brightest student, are you …?
;-)
Sharon .
Sharon, this is the last time I am approving your comments as you persist in ignoring anything I have written. Feel free to accuse me of silencing your viewpoint, but of course, on your own blog you don't actually allow comments, so that'd be accusing others of doing what you do.
Unless your next comment actually makes sense it will not appear.
And what – arrive at half a ’solution’, saying – ‘Well , it’s the best we could do having confined ourselves to only half the issue..’ ?
Because that IS what you are saying
No it isn't. You failed, once again, to read my comment didn't you. I was not talking about NI. I was talking about the rioting. The rioters and how they supposedly represted me. I disagreed and that is what my post was about. End of. So don't come calling me on NI or 1916, or the roots of the HR movement, or Wolfe Tone or aything like that, because I was not commenting on any of that.
But you do , at least (I presume) acknowledge that the jurisdictional claim from Westminster over six Irish counties has been the catalyst for the conflict over the last 84 years ? Or is it still your preference to ignore any reference to an historical context ?
Now, should I follow your earlier lead in applauding you for not putting words in my mouth and ignore what you have to say?
Your response does not address the issue I raiesed. I said, the situation in the 1920's is different from the situation today. You can either agree, or disagree. But what did you do? Ask a totally different question, attempting to change the issue.
ead that section again : you did not get the answer you would have liked , but that , alone , does not give you the right to claim that I made no comment on the issue .
Or maybe you should remember what you typed. You exact response was: â€
– You pulled yourself up just in time there : you were about too attempt to put words in my mouth but then backed-off . Well done You ! You did not say what you thought, instead you diverted the question to the legal name v the desciption of Ireland/the Republic. The isue I raised was what exactly do you mean when you say Free State, because on one occasion you admitted that you used it as a derogatory statement, while in the next you suggested that it is simply used to mean any country free of British writ, thereby including countries like the USA, Japan etc under that descriptive term.
You have , for one , shifted your position on the descriptive term you used to describe this State – after you were corrected on the proper use of same .
You are not really Yoda’s brightest student, are you …?<b?
No. I did not. There you go lying again. What I said was that I use the term Repubic of Ireland to describe the 26 county state, so that I don't constantly have to differentiate between the geographic island, and the state.
Oh, and Oscar Wilde was a genius, and if he had a lightsabre he'd be as cool as Yoda, but what exactly did the quote by him that you posted have to do with anything? Or are you trying to suggest that I shouldn't listen to you as listening implies indifference?
When exactly did Oscar Wilde have you as a student by the way? After all, you are saying I'm Yoda's student just because I quoted him…
I can't believe I'm arguing over Yoda. That has to be the most idiotic argument ever. Unless one counts the how long is a piece of string dispute.
I see Sharon on her blog is blaming the police for what happened on Saturday. Talk about burying your head in the sand.
"If I could find a stronger derogatory term , I would use it : I have absolutely no respect , no time and no desire to be like those in Leinster House – they are a self-serving bunch of rich careerists who ‘preside’ over a rotten and corrupt State."
Yet you apparently have time for those who rioted on O'Connell Street last Saturday.
Do you condmen what the rioters did last Saturday, Sharon? Your party, Republican Sinn Féin, has so far refused to condemn them.
"I see Sharon on her blog is blaming the police for what happened on Saturday. Talk about burying your head in the sand."
Far from 'burying my head in the sand' : I was unfortunately on the 'front line' when , after two-and-a-half hours of a trouble-free demonstration , the riot squad attempted to literally push us away from the monument : the 'ordinary' Gardai and the Special Branch had been 'mingling' with us during those two-and-a-half hours , taking names etc , and were apparently content to leave us at the Monument . Note that we were NOT blocking O' Connell Street -that was never our intention . We were , however , determined that Mr. Fraiser and Co. should see our banners and flags .
" Yet you apparently have time for those who rioted on O’Connell Street last Saturday."
– On what do you base that assumption ?
"Do you condmen what the rioters did last Saturday, Sharon? Your party, Republican Sinn Féin, has so far refused to condemn them."
-RSF have deplored the actions of those that caused that destruction : sections of the media have now back-tracked and acknowledged that " RSF protestors (were) not involved in the riots ….no evidence to suggest (that RSF) were involved in (the looting etc) " [Newstalk 106 Friday March 3 last] .
Incidentaly – may I ask your opinion on the journalists from 'The Evening Herald' complaining that the Gardai stopped them from recording the events ('Evening Herald' , Monday February 27 last) ?
Why should the Gardai do that , do you think ?
Sharon .
UI I'm not getting involved in this discussion any more, I've spent long enough on it to know that I won't be persuaded by Sharon's argument, and she won't be persuaded by mine.
However, as I've told Sharon, I will approve her comment in response to you.
Sharon
"Incidentaly – may I ask your opinion on the journalists from ‘The Evening Herald’ complaining that the Gardai stopped them from recording the events (’Evening Herald’ , Monday February 27 last) ?
Why should the Gardai do that , do you think ?"
The Evening Herald is a rag. I wouldn't regard it as a beacon of the truth by any stretch of the imagination.
It's funny how certain "Republicans" (note the quotation marks) who feel that the Irish State does not represent the legitimate government of Ireland, and who derive their authority from a non-existent entity, get awfully touchy and specific when it comes to details and "evidence" when they find themselves in a spot of bother.
RSF need to get real.
Hi 'UI' !
"The Evening Herald is a rag. I wouldn’t regard it as a beacon of the truth by any stretch of the imagination."
-Agreed 100 per cent !
But my comment re that newspaper is not in relation to an 'opinion piece' they published – it is in relation to a complaint from their own employees concerning the actions of the Gardai on February 25th last – there IS a difference . I have asked my question far and wide (believe me!) and yours is the ONLY reply I received – I cannot understand why the Gardai WOULD NOT want the scenes recorded . Can you ? Anyone ?
"It’s funny how certain “Republicans†(note the quotation marks) who feel that the Irish State does not represent the legitimate government of Ireland, and who derive their authority from a non-existent entity, get awfully touchy and specific when it comes to details and “evidence†when they find themselves in a spot of bother."
– "If" (note the quotation marks)you are referring to RSF , I believe they would have more reason than most NOT to commit to print UNLESS they could substantiate it . But tell me – how can "the Irish State" be "the legitimate government of Ireland" when its writ does not extend over the whole island ? Leinster House has never claimed that its writ covers the whole island , 'UI' – are you claiming that now , on their behalf , or on your own behalf ? Or are you of the opinion that 'the Irish State' is 'Ireland' ?
"RSF need to get real."
-I would be of the opinion that RSF are "as real" as it gets : ie that the conflict seems set to continue as long as the claim of jurisdiction from Westminster over six Irish counties is enforced .
You dis-agree … ?
Finally – I would like to thank our host for permitting us to invade (ooops!) his space : apart from his OBVIOUS distaste for Oscar Wilde , he appears to be a decent character .
I DID say 'appears' . ;-)
Sharon .
Sharon
"I cannot understand why the Gardai WOULD NOT want the scenes recorded . Can you ? Anyone ?"
WHy don't you make a complaint if it bothers you? Or write to the Herald?
"But tell me – how can “the Irish State†be “the legitimate government of Ireland†when its writ does not extend over the whole island ?"
I was referring to the state's official name.
"Leinster House has never claimed that its writ covers the whole island ,"
De Valera and the old Articles 2 and 3 ring a bell?
"I would be of the opinion that RSF are “as real†as it gets : ie that the conflict seems set to continue as long as the claim of jurisdiction from Westminster over six Irish counties is enforced ."
That's not getting real. That's living in a fantasy land and ignoring the democratic will of the majority.
"Finally – I would like to thank our host for permitting us to invade (ooops!) his space : apart from his OBVIOUS distaste for Oscar Wilde , he appears to be a decent character .
I DID say ‘appears’ ."
"He"?
Hi 'UI' !
"WHy don’t you make a complaint if it bothers you? Or write to the Herald?"
– "Bothers" me ? Intrigues me , more like it ! Why , in your opinion , would the gardai do that ?
"I was referring to the state’s official name."
-As stated : The 'Republic of Ireland' is NOT the name of the 26-County State – it is merely the "description" of the State under the 'Republic of Ireland Act 1948' . This issue was discussed at considerable length in late 1997/early 1998 and came to a conclusion of sorts in the April 1998 issue of 'Magill' magazine when various 'legal eagles' apparently agreed on the above-stated formula of words .
"De Valera and the old Articles 2 and 3 ring a bell?"
-Aspirational only ! And Leinster House never once claimed otherwise , either .
An 'Irish solution to an Irish problem' , if you like : ie 'put it in writing then , if anyone queries us over that particular issue , we can say – "Look – here's our plan which we intend to act on …eventually…" ! '
"That’s not getting real. That’s living in a fantasy land and ignoring the democratic will of the majority."
– Is "the will of the majority" (on this isle)for Westminster to continue to claim jurisdiction over six of our counties , do you think ?
In your opinion , would more be 'against' than 'for' if that question was put to them ? I think the latter . Do you dis-agree ?
Has our history not shown us that conflict is inevitable as long as that jurisdictional claim remains in place ?
“He�
-*BLUSH* Have I got it wrong ? I don't think so – us ladies appreciate Oscar Wilde : the boys prefer 'Yoda' (!) . Also (scraping the barrel here!) I was distracted by the graphic/image on the top of this site . A man with a gun will ALWAYS draw my attention (cue cries of "Typical!") . If I have made a gender-issue (PC correct) mistake I apologise . But really , 'UI' – it's not much for you to 'pull' me up on , is it ?
Sharon .
*BLUSH* Have I got it wrong ? I don’t think so – us ladies appreciate Oscar Wilde : the boys prefer ‘Yoda’ (!)
I'm female Sharon. And your comment about my obvious distate for Oscar Wilde is incorrect. I'm a big fan of Oscar's, as I told you I think he was a genius. However I'm able to appreciate many different genres, including Yoda.
Also, the man with the gun is Jayne, from Firefly/Serenity
And Jayne is up there because he is The Sexy. We ladies (well, definitely me, Fence and Kelly) find him deeeeeeply attractive.
Fence is a boy's name.
Well, Fence ain't a boy! I'll show you good and all I got girl-parts…
" I’m female Sharon. And your comment about my obvious distate for Oscar Wilde is incorrect. I’m a big fan of Oscar’s, as I told you I think he was a genius. However I’m able to appreciate many different genres, including Yoda."
– Double *blush* !
I blame your parents . For christening you ……oh never mind ! No matter WHAT I say now it just won't be good enough ! :-(
(But can Yode [Yoda-ism?] be labelled a 'genre' ? I best say no more – am in enough trouble already ..)
"Also, the man with the gun is Jayne, from Firefly/Serenity"
-I will have to get out more often . I have NO IDEA who you are talking about !
"And Jayne is up there because he is The Sexy. We ladies (well, definitely me, Fence and Kelly) find him deeeeeeply attractive."
– If I was not in soooo much trouble with ye lot already , I would tell you what I think of him . But I am , so I won't !
" Fence is a boy’s name.
Well, Fence ain’t a boy! I’ll show you good and all I got girl-parts… "
– Wait until I leave , please ….
Sharon .
Hi Sharon!
"“Bothers†me ? Intrigues me , more like it ! Why , in your opinion , would the gardai do that ?"
He was ahving a bad day? The journalsit called him a muppet? Who knows? As I say, write to them if it bothers you. :)
"As stated : The ‘Republic of Ireland’ is NOT the name of the 26-County State"
'Ireland' is. This is what I said.
"Aspirational only !"
It's aspirational now, not then.
"Is “the will of the majority†(on this isle)for Westminster to continue to claim jurisdiction over six of our counties , do you think ?"
The will of the majority, as set out in the GFA, was to leave the future of the North in the hands of those from the North. The Irish people backed that view in a referendum.
"In your opinion , would more be ‘against’ than ‘for’ if that question was put to them ? I think the latter . Do you dis-agree ?"
No, but it's a red herring.
"Has our history not shown us that conflict is inevitable as long as that jurisdictional claim remains in place ?"
No. Our history has shown that conflict is inevitable as long as certain elelemnts of society ignore democracy and favour violence.
"But really , ‘UI’ – it’s not much for you to ‘pull’ me up on , is it ?"
Sharon, I assure you I have no intention of pulling you. ;)
" He was ahving a bad day? The journalsit called him a muppet? Who knows? As I say, write to them if it bothers you."
-…and as I say : it intrigues me rather than bothers me . Sections of the Gardai preferring that their actions NOT be recorded by the media , in a situation like they were in … ?
"‘Ireland’ is. This is what I said."
-…according to the 'legal eagles' it's not ! And if this (26 County) State IS 'Ireland' – then should the complete island be called 'Ireland Plus Six' ?
"“Aspirational only !â€
It’s aspirational now, not then."
– Aspirational for 76 years and no attempt made , by those in Leinster House ,to enforce it . Always ONLY aspirational , unfortunately .
" The will of the majority, as set out in the GFA, was to leave the future of the North in the hands of those from the North. The Irish people backed that view in a referendum."
-"The Irish people" ? As in ALL of the voters ? In 'both' jurisdictions , a sizeable section of the electorate either did not vote at all or voted 'No' – over 49 per cent in this State and over 47 per cent in the Six County State .
What was that about "the Irish people" ?
" No, but it’s a red herring."
– Hardly a 'red herring' : dismissed by those that have a good idea what the answer would be , certainly , because it does not suit their political agenda .
" No. Our history has shown that conflict is inevitable as long as certain elelemnts of society ignore democracy and favour violence."
– The British , you mean ? I agree !
" Sharon, I assure you I have no intention of pulling you."
– I refuse to bring down the level of this discussion by asking what it is you are 'pulling' ? ;-)
Sharon .
Sharon
"-â€The Irish people†? As in ALL of the voters ? In ‘both’ jurisdictions , a sizeable section of the electorate either did not vote at all or voted ‘No’ – over 49 per cent in this State and over 47 per cent in the Six County State .
What was that about “the Irish people†?"
Lovely view of democracy right there. No wonder RSF do so badly in the polls!
I'll leave you to your red herrings, Sharon. :)